Lying and Deception
What does the community really teach about lying?
"When we went there we went to intentionally evade the truth. Now I realize how wrong that was."
-Spoken by Former Member
"Here, we are hoping to 'lay low' with the school authorities until we all move together to Lindach, but someone reported that we have children here who are not going to school."
-Inter Tribal News, March 1996, News from South Germany.
"When there was a set back The police told one of our little groups to leave the area, we were not allowed even in the parking lot..What else could we do but leave the exit? Someone started to tell the others, but I stopped them. It was better for the rest not to know."
- InterTribal News, May 1996, News from Hamburg, NY
"We are obligated by conscience and the Holy Spirit to never lie. But to not tell the truth is not a lie. The truth is hidden from someone who does not deserve to have it"
- All Liars, p. 2, undated
"We could tell them that we are Christians or believers just like them, (trying to relate as much as possible) otherwise a red flag goes up and they think we are from some other religion or cult that has nothing to do with the Jesus of the Scriptures."
-InterTribal News, February 1996, News from Asher
"We had sent them a long list of doctrinal questions. Few of these questions were answered. (Blank) would later explain. They said (members in the Twelve Tribes), Don't answer any of their questions about doctrine. They need Yahshua. If you get into doctrine before they visit it will just scare them off and they won't be able to receive life."
-Excerpt from Letter from Former Member.
Spriggs calms Himself an Apostle/Not an Apostle "It must begin by saying that the only authority I have to be called an Apostle is my fruit, Of course authority comes from God, but is recognized by men according to its fruit its practicality (sic)."
- Apostolic Role, 1976 or 1977, p. 1.
"Well, I don't even know why they call me an Apostle. I don't like to be called an Apostle. I don't call myself an Apostle..."
- Elbert Spriggs, Bozeman/Palmer interview, June 1994
Our definition of lying means the intentional deception of those who have a right to know. The need to know for the sake of justice and righteousness - then we are obligated to tell them it's true.
- Lying 11/29/88
Not telling the truth to someone who doesn't deserve the truth isn't lying.
Transcripts from Televised Program
Springer Video- March 1994
Eddie Wisemam: "We don't know where Steve Wooten is." Jerry Springer. "And you can't find him?' Wiseman: 'I can't find him I do not know where Steve is."
Chronicle Video- February 1998
Mary Richardson: "The Messianic Community continues to deny it helped Steve Wooten when he was a
Nate Wooten: "Of course there were people who knew where we were because they were the ones telling us where to go...I am happy to find out that my mom isn't the bad person she was made out to be." (Both boys had been told she had AIDS and couldn't be touched).
Richardson: "They (the boys) are sad about their father and his insistence that the Church didn't harbor them."
Nate Wooten: "And for them to go to court and say they didn't have anything to do with it, and for my Dad to continually say, 'No, they didn't do it They didn't participate,' is the biggest lie I have ever heard."
Geraldo Video- October 1997
Tim Wooten: "They would move me around and that is how they would use you."
(Both boys have testified in affidavits that they met with leaders of the Twelve Tribes while living underground, had seen Spriggs (Yeneq), Eddie Wiseman, and Jeannie Swantko (lawyer of the group); had the phone numbers of the leaders in their pockets.)
The Journal- October 1983
(CBC) (This is a short interchange about alleged child abuse in the Communities).
Community Member (CM): "The mind that you have on it and the mind that I have on it are different and that's how you have come to say it because the mind you have isn't the mind I have"
Reporter (R): "So, it's okay to lie to me because I'm coming in the wrong sprite'
CM: "I'm not lying to you 'cause it's the spirit, it's the spirit that counts"
R: 'how can you talk yourself into this? If you tell me a bare faced lie in front of your God, and (then) you can tell me that's okay because I've come here in the wrong spirit'
CM: "It's true Spirit" R: I can't believe how you talk yourself into it"
CM: "Let's say I lied to you"
R: "So why did you do that?"
CM: I didn't think it was a lie but the more I come to it, it was a lie."
R: "So, what is the truth?'
CM: "I couldn't tell you that because you wouldn't understand"